Saturday, July 19, 2008

FAS

Hardly a week goes by now without some report or comment being issued by one of our quangos.Are they trying to remind us that they are all still there ?
The latest comments come from F.A.S.and are concerned with the looming unemployment prospects in this country .The following sentance was included ;''A significant migratory response should soften the blow of negative employment growth on unemployment.''
Translated from 'civil-service-eze'this seems to be saying 'Unemployed ?..If so , please get out of the country before we have to pay you Unemployment Benefit ! That way we can make sure that there is enough left in the 'pot' for our own pensions .'
All this sounds very familiar .

7 comments:

McBlogger said...

Not sure what your point is here. You disagree with FAS reporting on employment, or you want the unemployed to stay so you can pay them unemployment benefits, or put them on FAS courses? What alternative are you suggesting.

Heres the rest of the report.
http://www.fas.ie/en/About+Us/News/180708.htm

I would have thought the unemployed leaving would be a good thing. FAS Would need less people, (Less tax to pay into pensions), and less unemployment to pay.

Rob said...

Interesting pro-emigration stance here, McBlogger. I would have thought stemming the tide of emigration from Ireland, and drawing other Europeans into the economy was one of the great triumphs of the last 20 years, no? Hoping to get back to a migration deficit doesn't sound like much of a job-creation strategy to me.
Here's Fas's mission, as per their Web site: "As the National Training and Employment Authority, FÁS anticipates the needs of, and responds to, a constantly changing labour market which employs over 2 million people..." Perhaps they should add, "and hopes any problems with the labor market go away." What's the plan b if their anticipations are wrong, and migrant workers don't leave the country?

McBlogger said...

This is a bit like the RTE weatherman forecasting rain and then claiming RTE want it to rain. AFAIK FAS don't create jobs. I'm open to correction on that.

Besides I wasn't stating a personal pro-emigration preference, but that an Anti FAS/quango position could favour pro-emigration, as FAS would have less people to train, therefore needing less staff.

We pay FAS (via our taxes) to train those migrant workers and take them off the dole. They also train the apprentices that work in the trades. I assume a high % of those would be migrant workers too.

How would FAS know what and how many course to run unless they forecast demand? I assume Govt policies should take into account such forecasts, which is probably why they have been asked to do them. I can't imagine quango self advertising was the reason. Considering all the press about their advertising budget recently.

FAS published this previously "It will also be important to help re-train those most vulnerable to a slowdown, most notably construction workers, so that they can take up employment in growth sectors"

Rob said...

You're right, McBlogger, it doesn't look like they do much about job creation, apart from their community program for the long-term unemployed. Perhaps they should try to expand that part of their brief, instead of prognosticating on the job market using dodgy economic assumptions. Brian McCormick saying a loss of immigrants will help with unemployment is a bit like an RTE meterologist saying a low pressure front should bring a nice bit of sunshine. See below under "Economic Benefits Of Immigration."
http://www.migrationinformation.org/transatlantic/ImmigrationEULaborMarket_72507.pdf

McBlogger said...

There are other agencies that look after job creation, like IDA and Enterprise Ireland. what sense would it make to have FAS do it? Do you think someone who trains plumbers, is the right person to attract global corporations to Ireland. Maybe the HSE should get involved in Job creation too? They seem good at it.

Part of FAS role (as I understand it) is to "prognosticating" on the job market. That how they determine what courses to run, what skills people need. How else would they do it? Toss a coin?

The article you link to is suggesting that immigration can help sustain economic growth when the local population doesn't fill all the jobs. It doesn't say that immigration helps to pull you out of recession, (which we're in) or creates jobs, or reduce rapidly rising unemployment.

Rob said...

Quoting from the "Benefits of Immigration" section of that report: "More immigration -- especially migrants of working age -- means more hands and more growth..." It's a simple economic fact that doesn't change because of where a country is in its economic cycle: more hands means more growth, less hands means less growth, less growth means more unemployment. If all the emigrants left a certain town in Ireland and returned home, what do you and Mr. McCormick think the result would be for the shops in that town and their Irish employees and owners? Anyone familiar with Ireland's economic malaise from the 1950s through 1980s knows that net migration doesn't bring unemployment rates down. And, yes, training skilled workers -- even lowly plumbers -- is vital for attracting overseas capital. They could help the situation in Ireland by rethinking their training programs to address the economic crisis. By the sounds of things, they are working under misguided assumption that the labour markets will sort themselves out and they have nothing to worry about.

McBlogger said...

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly. You suggested that FAS should take on job creation. I'm asking you to consider if FAS staff, for example a plumber instructor from FAS, or a welder, perhaps with decades of plumbing, welding experience should stop doing that, and go negotiate with global corporations to set up here. To me that makes no sense. Does it make sense for the IDA to start training plumbers?

I think you've got the chicken and egg mixed up. More unemployed workers do not create economic growth. Unemployed people purchase power is severely limited. Higher taxes will reduce the spending power of those that are working too. That article is about sustaining growth. Not creating it.